Total first timer with mojoPortal

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2/25/2010 2:50:32 AM
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Total first timer with mojoPortal

Hi guys, total newbie here, so if I ask a stupid question please don't mind :)  I am a fairly experienced coder however.

I just learned about mojoPortal about an hour ago and did some quick reading about it.  Tomorrow evening I'll actually install it on my development server and play around with it a bit.  I've got a couple of quick questions however that I'm hoping someone here can answer to help me out :)


1.  I use ASP.NET MVC 2.  From what I've read thus far I understand that mojoPortal itself does not directly support MVC 2, but there are plans for future support.  Will I be able to build my site(s) in ASP.NET MVC 2 and then integrate mojoPortal so that it performs side-by-side with WebForms & MVC 2?  I'm not hopeful, but hey it's worth asking.


2.  What's the low-down on deploying to GoDaddy?  Not possible?  Pain in the neck but possible?  ...or easy as pie?  (Heh, I'm not hopeful for the latter)

2/25/2010 8:42:19 AM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

Hi,

About MVC

I have no immediate plans to try and re-write mojoPortal as an MVC (Model View Controller) application. At some point I might consider setting up a separate MVC UI project that could evolve somewhat independently and use the same business and data layer code as the WebForms version, but I think I will wait for MVC 3 or MVC 4 and let that technology mature a while before I decide whether to jump on that bandwagon.

Actually, I'm more interested in the ASP.NET WebForms MVP (Model View Presenter) framework, which appears to me to provide the same benefits as MVC without throwing the baby out with the bath water. I like the high productivity and control encapsulation provided by WebForms and I see little value in re-writing 5 years of high quality WebForms code.

For more info on MVP listen to this Hanselminutes podcast.

About GoDaddy

Many people manage to run mojoPortal on Godaddy. It is not the greatest hosting, but it works. You have to configure for medium trust.

Best,

Joe

3/1/2010 1:56:04 AM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

Thanks for your reply! :)

I understand why you wouldn't want to port to MVC, and if I were in your shoes I can totally see myself making the same decision.  I can also understand the leaning toward MVP, although I'm not as huge of a fan of it (yet).  I liked Web Forms when it was first introduced, but with the variety of applications I've had to develop I much prefer MVC these days.  To each his or her own :)

For your project, I would definitely wait until MVC 2 RTM or 3.  Thanks again and keep up the good work, I'll definitely keep an eye on your project!

9/19/2011 8:34:01 AM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

Hi joe.

MVC3 is already out.

ASP.NET web forms isn't my favorite way of developing. I can't remember the last time I dragged a control into a web form. (I hate those ASP.NET codes in the html page source code)

I really prefer a much cleaner way of developing for web.

nopCommerce people have rewritten their whole application using EF and MVC!!

I don't know how you can start with MVC, but I think it's the time we can no more ignore it.

9/19/2011 8:44:52 AM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

MVC is not compatible with WebForms, it would take a complete rewrite of all features to change to MVC. Rewriting 7 years of work is not feasible and is not going to happen in mojoPortal. 

I never use drag and drop of controls and never will, but I still like WebForms and I have invested 7 years building mojoPortal on WebForms and I still like it and find it to be a good platform for development. There is no business case to start over from scratch just to be able to use MVC.

if it is important to you to use MVC there are other cms options out there that use it.

9/19/2011 9:01:06 AM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

MVC is not compatible with WebForms

I didn't know this. pity.

 

9/19/2011 9:24:49 AM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

To clarify MVC does not use controls ServerControls or UserControls, so you cannot re-use much of anything from WebForms in MVC. That is what is incompatible about it. WebForms builds a tree of controls even Page is a control in that regard and each control in the tree participates in an event lifecycle ie OnInit, PageLoad, PreRender, Render and these events are fired recursively through the tree down through child controls. 

MVC has none of this so you cannot build a component in MVC and plug it into WebForms nor can you build something in WebForms and plug it into MVC. 

You can have WebForms pages and MVC pages side by side in the same application but they cannot integrate together very well. We already have a plugin model for routing and one could plugin MVC pages and configure the routing for them but they will not use the same skinning model and therefore will not be visually integrated. In fact the term pages is misleading because there are not pages in MVC in the same sense that there are pages in WebForms that inherit from System.Web.UI.Page. MVC has routes and handlers and such but not pages in the same sense as we use the word in WebForms.

One could build an MVC app and run it in their mojoPortal installation but it will not be visually integrated and it will not be able to re-use any controls.

WebForms is a much easier model for developers because it does a lot for you so you don't have to already be an expert in http, html, javascript, and it simulates a stateful environment with events whereas in reality the web is not a stateful thing it is just a request/response kind of thing where each request is like a brand new request. By things like viewstate and the postback model WebForms gives us a stateful event driven paradigm that is easier to understand.

It amazes me how many people say they want MVC and don't really even understand what it is or how it differs from WebForms. MVC (Model View Controller) is just a design pattern. There are some good things about MVC, it promotes separation of concerns and makes a more testable architecture for those who do test driven development but those things can also be achieved in WebForms. If test driven development is important to you it can be done the the WebForms MVP (Model View Presenter) framework while still keeping the advantages of WebForms. WebForms is more approachable for new developers and more geared towards rapid development. End users don't care whether an app is built on MVC or WebForms they care about the features and the value delivered by the application. There is no reason to rewrite a well implemented WebForms app in MVC especially a large one that has been evolving for 7 years and already delivers a lot of features and value.

9/19/2011 11:46:23 AM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

I don't have much experience with asp.net MVC.

but I have experienced Struts 2 framework of Java EE. (and all I say comes from benefits of struts 2, not asp.net mvc)

maybe there are some features in web forms that migrating them is nearly impossible, or there is no reason for migrating them.

well, there is no need to change them, ok.

but there are many scenarios that if using MVC in mojoportal was possible, it would benefit other developers or even yourself when creating new features.

you know what, for many many applications postback and viewstate are not needed, and also many developers already are an expert in http, html and others.

as I remember, Struts 2 had automatic data transfer, conversion, verification, and I think it's one step forward from postback.

9/19/2011 12:07:31 PM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

struts has no bearing on this discussion.

MVC is not compatible with webforms and mojoPortal will remain webforms.

You can make MVC pages in the same site with mojoPortal but because they are not compatible they will not share anything including skins

if you want to work with MVC there are plenty of other options out there for you to use.

Look at Umbraco, they are changing it to MVC and breaking all backwards compatibility with previous versions, their logic is that they can do this because nobody upgrades Umbraco

Umbraco 5 "is a ground up rebuild" of Umbraco, I'm not doing that with mojoPortal.

I do not see it that way at all with mojoPortal, most people do upgrade because I have always made it easy and smooth to upgrade. I am not changing mojoPortal to MVC and I'm not breaking the compatibility for all custom features that people have built on top of mojoPortal.

So if MVC is what you really want to work with you should use something that is built on it like Umbraco 5, Orchard, Kooboo. There are lots of choices for MVC.

I still think mojoPortal has a lot of advantages and I also still think WebForms is a good development platform. I'm not throwing away my investment in developing mojoPortal spending the next 2 years rewriting it in MVC just so I can make it buzzword compatible. I have enough to do focusing on continuing to evolve it with features that users care about.

9/19/2011 12:19:42 PM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

you know what?

I never even think about another CMS on dot net.

and I guess for a long long time I will be using mojoportal, and I'm sure I will be happy using it.

forget about MVC!

(well, all mojoportal needs to be Considered the best CMS in the world is one or two really nice and beautiful skins!)

thank you for all hard work you do for mojoportal!

9/19/2011 12:30:48 PM
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Re: Total first timer with mojoPortal

Glad to hear it. As one final note on this topic I want to re-iterate that people can build MVC apps as "bolt on" apps in mojoPortal, that is apps that are not CMS plugins and that do not use other controls included in mojoPortal. Bolt on apps could still take advantage of users and roles in mojoPortal, but MVC bolt on apps cannot re-use any of the useful UI controls in mojoPortal whereas WebForms apps can.

See this thread for more on what I mean by bolt on apps.

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