Job's Posting Module

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10/9/2007 5:50:00 PM
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Job's Posting Module

Hello Joe,

I've just recently started playing around with mojoPortal for our corporate website.  So far I've been happy with it's performance and usability.  My HR department has requested that I bring a job posting feature out to our corporate website, but I do not wish to implement this with our current website since it's just a set of flat HTML files.  I wish to move our corporate website to mojoPortal so I wanted to see if you have already implemented a job posting module or know of someone who is already doing so.

If the module is not currently being implemented I would be willing to take on the task although I'm not a C# or ASP.NET developer.  I'm mostly a C/C++, Java, Flex and Actionscript developer, but I like to learn new stuff so I'm game.

I use PostgreSQL as my database of choice anytime I need a database. 

I current have Visual Studio 2005 Express Edition C# / Web Developer.  Is mojoPortal able to be built and developed with this version of Visual Studio or do I need the Standard / Professional editions.  I also am currently downloading Visual Studio 2008 Beta 2 Professional edition, but it may not be compatible with Visual Studio 2005 project files.

I'd like to discuss this feature and get a feeling for what you think and whether you think it would be something of interest to the mojoPortal community in general.  If you feel the community would be interested in the feature I have no problem making it available as part of mojoPortal.

Thanks,

William

10/10/2007 8:36:41 AM
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Re: Job's Posting Module

Hi William,

I think a small company could easily manage job postings using the HTML Content module. If I had a few job openings I would create a page and put an Html Content instance on the page for each each job. When I fill the position I simply remove it from the page. So at that level we already have something that can be used.

Of course a larger company with a lot of job openings would find the above mechanism a bit cumbersome and would probably want something more elaborate to simplify management of hundreds or thousands of job listings.

So when we discuss a feature by the name of "job posting module" we could mean a lot of different things in terms of the range of functionality and it would be good to clarify what we mean by that in terms of a list of more specific features or a story board about the expected use and flow of the feature.

I envision a complete HR system that plugs into mojoPortal and facilitates the management of employees though the whole cycle from posting the position to hiring to performance reviews etc. If you are interested in building any parts of that I would love to have your help and contribution.

I'm not sure about the limitations of the Express editions of VS as I have and use the Professional version myself. I'm not sure the project types are compatible, my guess is not.

I'm a big fan of PostgreSQL, however in my work flow of implementing the data layers for mojoPortal I always develop first in MS SQL. This is primarily because I use Codesmith (a code generation tool) to generate code by pointing at a database table. Currently Codesmith has db providers for MS SQL and MySql so you can point at a table on either of those and generate code using custom scripts I have written myself to help speed development. So I can point to an MS SQL table I have a script to generate table creation script for PostgreSQL. I can also generate stored procedures and ado.net data access code for PostgreSQL by pointing at an MS SQL table with Codesmith.

So my main point is if you develop first in PostgreSQL, it will be more work for me to later implement the other data layers because I can't point at a PostgreSQL table and generate anything. I will have to first write the MS SQL version by hand and then be able to do some generation from there. Not a huge problem, just not as optimal.

If you had access to work with MS SQL and Codesmith you could use my custom code generator templates. They are included with the mojoPortal source code.

My long term vision for mojoPortal is to gradually build all the pieces needed to run a business over the web with public facing features and private intranet type features. So ultimately we need HR, CRM, Messaging/Collaboration, Office or Office Integration with services like google docs or Office Live, ecmomerce, project management. So a job posting feature would be one of the building blocks toward this and would be a welcome contribution to the project.

Best Regards,

Joe

10/10/2007 11:25:36 PM
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Re: Job's Posting Module

Hello Joe,

Sorry I wasn't clear with my initial inquiry about a job posting module.  I've already implemented using HTML and just deleting the job entries as they are filled or no longer valid, but this isn't my idea of a final solution since HR just comes to me to modify the entries.  I've been actually thinking about your second solution for sometime now as my final solution to the job posting request.  I thought about it from a data modeling mostly since I have many HR and Employee usability issues I'm trying to solve.  So I think my vision of my job posting module and yours are inline with each other.  I'll give you an idea of what I'm thinking or desire in the solution.

1.  HR using a form to manage the job listings.  The form would allow the creation/update/removal of jobs.  We'd allow a role(s) to be assigned to this page to control access of whom to create/update/remove job listings.

  • Create Date (Auto Filled)
  • Last Updated (Auto filled)
  • Job ID (Auto Generated - Sequence Generator)
  • Postion Title (Dropdown)
  • Category (Dropdown)
  • Education Level (Dropdown)
  • Relocation Available (Checkbox)
  • Manages Others (Checkbox)
  • Status (Dropdown - Fulltime/Parttime/etc...)
  • Salary (Free Form textfield)
  • Listing Start Date (Calenar Component Select)
  • Listing End Date (Calendar Component Select)
  • Company (Dropdown - We have 2 companies handled by our HR department)
  • Job Location (Dropdown)
  • Email Address (Auto Filled but editable textfield)
  • Job Summary (Richtext component)
  • Job Details (Richtext component)
  • Hiring Manager (Dropdown)
  • Hiring Department (Dropdown)
  • Approval Manager (Dropdown)
  • Approval Department (Dropdown)

I'm sure there will be more, but it's a start.

2.  Potential job seekers would navigate to the job listing page to view available job.  Job seekers would be able to perform several tasks at this page.  Job seeker would not be required to register to apply for position.

  • Search by location
  • Search by job category
  • Search by job status
  • Search by position title
  • List all open jobs
  • Select a specific job to view the details.
  • While viewing the detail job listing apply for the position.  (Maybe just an email link if their not registered user.)

I haven't written a formal requirements document yet for this feature, but I will have to eventually write on to get my company to approval to make sure it covers our needs and more broadly the needs of mojoPortal. 

I would like to have a complete HR solution for job posting from initally listing of jobs through hiring of applicant.  I actually gave our HR department a complete solution from the HRM vendor they are using at a cost of $8000.00 initial cost with a $1500.00 yearly maintenance fee.

They baulked at the cost mostly due to the yearly maintenance cost, which you had to purchase.  So I dug up my initial writing of my ideas for what I was thinking of implementing using J2EE and Flex/Actionscript/PostgreSQL.  Then I started to think if I wish to implement a mojoPortal for our corporate internet/intranet solution I should rethink the implementation choices.  Although PostgreSQL is a must for me.  I'd never get MS SQL in house due to cost.

I'm downloading Visual Studio 2008 Beta 2 Professional now so maybe I can use that if we decide to go ahead with the implemenation.  Could I use MS SQL Express for the database until we generated the templates for PostgreSQL?

I'll have to look into the CodeSmith product as I'm not familiar with it.  If it's not too expensive maybe I can just purchase it.  It sounds like it only supports MS SQL server so I'd have to purchase it myself unless I can find a way to make use of it for PostgreSQL and other projects.

One of the first big things would be ironing out the data model  keeping an eye towards the future.  Also would the job postings share the mojoPortal database?  I think putting it into it's own schema container would be good idea just to keep it all together.  I've been using schemas in PostgreSQL recently for another application I'm modling for each of the optional modules of the LIS (Laboratory Information System).

Let me know what you think and if we're in agreement I'll begin writing down requirements for the job posting module and we can go from there.

 

Thanks,

William

10/11/2007 1:12:21 PM
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Re: Job's Posting Module

Hi William,

The plan for the feature sounds great to me.

Yes Sql Express is fine for the development db. You can run scripts against it.

Codesmith has a 30 day free trial. However, the full product is only required for authoring your own code generation templates. Even after the free trial expires it can still run the code generation scripts that come with it or that come with mojoPortal or ones you authored during the trial. So it is a free tool as long as you are using existing templates but requires a license to be able to edit them or create your own.

It is probably also possible to write a provider for Codesmith to make it work where it could point at a PostgreSQl table and run the code generation. My friend wrote the one for MySql which they now include in the latest version of Codesmith.

I recommend you use Guid columns aka uniqueidentifier data type for ID columns. In MS SQL you can set newid() as the default and it will auto generate them for new rows. I have used integer auto ids in some places in mojoPortal but am using Guids for everything going forward and am in process of adding guids to existing tables that have integer ids. There is a huge benefit in that by doing this it is much easier to import data from one instalation or site to another without id clashes.

For postgresql there is no uniueidentifier data type. Just use char 36 and then pass in Guid.NewGuid().ToString() from the C# code.

Let me know anything you need help with or have questions about.

Best,

Joe

10/11/2007 2:26:02 PM
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Re: Job's Posting Module

Hi William/Joe
Sorry to butt into this thread. Joe what version of Codesmith are you using? I downloaded version 4.1.2 and after the trial finished it seems to be completly locked for use? Am I missing something?
I did see they still have a freeware version 2.x but I’m guessing the templates may not run on this?
Cheers
Rob

10/11/2007 2:39:01 PM
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Re: Job's Posting Module

Hi Rob,

You're probably right about the newer version timeout. I'm not sure about the script compatibility but I think it might work using my scripts with that version. I started with that version and have not used any of the new features in any of the newer versions since then that I know of so my scripts may run fine. I kept the old versions of my templates in svn too so if the new ones don't work the same logic could be copied to the old version templates. They are just text files.

Best,

Joe

 

10/11/2007 4:23:33 PM
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Total Posts 46

Re: Job's Posting Module

Hi Joe,

I downloaded the freeware version of Codesmith 2.6. It doesn't seem to be listed from the main site but you can get it from here www.codesmithtools.com/freeware.aspx. I tested all the 4.x templates and found that about half of them worked. The ones that didn't work are:

mp_MSSQLDataLayerMethodGenerator.cst
mp_MSSQL_To_Any_BusinessClassStubber.cst
mp_MSSQL_To_Firebird_DataLayerMethodGenerator.cst
mp_MSSQL_To_MySQL_DataLayerMethodGenerator.cst
mp_MSSQL_To_PostgreSQL_DataLayerMethodGenerator.cst
mp_MSSQL_To_SQLite_DataLayerMethodGenerator

The above can all be fixed by doing a search and replace on "<% =" to "<%="

The below all fail with "'SchemaExplorer.TableSchema' does not contain a definition for 'ForeignKeyColumns'". I've no idea why?
mp_MSSQL_To_Firebird_TableScriptGenerator.cst **
mp_MSSQL_To_PostgreSQL_TableScriptGenerator.cst **
mp_MSSQL_To_MySQL_TableScriptGenerator.cst **

Cheers

Rob

10/12/2007 10:05:33 AM
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Re: Job's Posting Module

Hi Rob,

Thanks for testing those. I think I can fix the first set without breaking it in the new version.

I'll look into the second set and if nothing else try to make an alternate version for 2.6.

Its very good to know that the freeware version can be used. I'll fix the templates and re-organise them in svn. I'll post again when thats done so you can test them.

Thanks,

Joe

10/14/2007 9:28:45 AM
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Re: Job's Posting Module

The Codesmith templates have been updated in svn trunk. I have not tested them with the 2.6 version but I made changes that should fix the first set of issues and made alternate files for the second set.

Thanks,

Joe

10/14/2007 12:29:23 PM
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Total Posts 46

Re: Job's Posting Module

Hi Joe,

Many thanks for the update, I tested and all of the fixes and new templates now work in v2.6. I'll keep my eye on any commits to SVN on the templates and test them on v2.6 if they change.

Cheers,

Rob

10/17/2007 10:11:10 AM
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Re: Job's Posting Module

Hello Joe,

I've just downloaded CodeSmith Professional 4.1.2 with the 30 day trial.  I'm going to go through the user guide today so I have an understanding of the package.  I found a PostgreSQL provider for CodeSmith, but it appears not to be fully complete.  I have SQL Express loaded at my home, but need to load it at my office, where I'm hoping to do most of my work.

I'll be meeting with my H.R. department to discuss their wishes for the feature to make sure I account for H.R. requirements.  I got caught up in adding some modifications to the other applications I've created using Flex/Actionscipt the past few days.  I'll post the data schema (PostgreSQL script) in a few days for you to review.

I'll let you know how I make out with CodeSmith once I'm finished reviewing the user guide and play with it for a few days.  Since the package appears to be only $399 I'm going to try and get my company to purchase it.  Be easy if it supported PostgreSQL out of the box.

William

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